#letters are not canon and Silm is interpretable
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Poll results: naming&shipping
TLDR: when you ship the bad guy, you call him nice names.
Long:
(I can't statistics, I used ChatGPT for help. I can some abstract math but not statistics. Sorry.)
Poll data:
Now, for the chi-square analysis to check if they're independent:
I chose p=0.05, which means "for the result to ba accidental, the result would need to roll a natural 20".
Basically, the critical value is what you want the chi-square to be above. Then you can say that with the probability you chose (here: 0.05), the two sets aren't independent.
More simply: If the chi-square (the thing in bottom right of the tables) is higher than the critical value, it means that your naming preferences are tied to your shipping preferences.
Interestingly, idiot#1 has a much stronger result than Idiot#2. Maybe it's because people who love Precious even w/o shipping are in my Tumblr's reach and the "Melkor did nothing wrong" crowd is not? IDK.
Also, Sauron has more shippers than no-shippers, Morgoth has an equal split.
Also, very few people use equal-ish mix of "Melkor" and "Morgoth", which is kind of surprising. You all don't talk much about pre-Darkening I guess? Or don't use the "whatever the guy was called at the time" convention. Interesting. I may do some more polls at some time.
#he did a lot wrong#both did#idiot (affectionate) but still an idiot#I am in the “no-ship varied names” for both#canon what canon#letters are not canon and Silm is interpretable#i know he's bad i know it ok?#anyway#rambling in tags#poll results#mairon#sauron#melkor#morgoth#angering both their fans and their haters I guess#silm stats
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This is an excellent paper on Tolkien and fanfiction!Â
Abrahamson starts by considering the many (and various, and seemingly conflicting) accounts from Tolkien’s letters in which he describes dealing with fans, especially those who wrote sequels or continuations of his work. Examining these passages, Abrahamson concludes that Tolkien’s main issue was “less with fan interpretation and more with fan interpretation in ignorance of the canon he provided” (p. 62).Â
Is this to say that he would have been totally down for all of the things we get up to as a fandom? . . .Probably not, but that isn’t Abrahamson’s point, and her paper is all the stronger for avoiding it! Instead, by distinguishing between “disregard” and “derivativeness” as two points upon which Tolkien might have considered fanfiction (p. 72), she avoids falling into the value judgments common among scholars from outside fan studies (yay Megan!), and leaves plenty of room for further conversation.
And maybe this is just me, but it’s also exciting to see the Silm fandom get some screen time alongside the LotR and Hobbit folks? Also, if you were around for Noldor Independence Day in 2013, you may have gotten a shout-out from page 62 on!
Definitely worth a read.
- mod RC
#tolkien#fanfiction#tolkien fandom#fan studies#resource#scholarly resource#resource:article#silm fandom#site:tumblr#queued post
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Innumerable Stars 2020 Letter :)
Hello lovely creator, thanks for writing for me in Innumerable Stars 2020! I’m very excited and grateful for whatever you create for me <3
This letter will restate my DNWs, list my likes, give you a brief rundown of my canon preferences, and then dive into specific prompts for each of my requests. I’ll warn you upfront that I tend to ramble, so feel free to skip prompts that don’t interest you and/or use ctrl+F to search for whatever it is you want to write for. I’ve named each of my requests based on the basic idea within it, so hopefully that will be helpful for you!
~~~
Housekeeping:
DNWs:
Non-con
Unrequested dub-con
Abusive/Neglectful parenting (especially wrt FĂ«anor)
Sibling incest, parent-child incest (cousin pairings are fine)
Unhappy/Unhopeful endings (unless otherwise specified)
Jealousy/Possessiveness
Cheating
Character or ship bashing
Hanahaki/any scenario where unrequited love is physically damaging
Soulmates, especially soulmate AUs (soul bonds are OK, if there is choice involved)
Porn without plot (Porn with plot is fine!) - the exceptions to this are Russingon and Finrod ships
Food involved in sex
Unrequested Modern AU
Non-trans mpreg
If you’re writing a slash ship where the characters are/were married to/involved with someone outside the ship, please don’t have the character(s) hate their spouse or not have been actually in love with them (the one exception is, again, Finrod; I’m fine with him and Amarië not having been actually in love, but please don’t do this for anyone else, especially not Fëanor)
Hobbit/LOTR-specific DNWs:
The concept of a dwarven “One”
Any FĂli pairing
Alfrid
Legolas or Gimli paired with anyone other than each other
no smut for these fandoms, please
Silm-specific DNWs:
Evil/irredeemable/incel Maeglin
Elwing bashing
FĂ«anorian bashing
Over the top Fëanorian apologism (they did bad stuff; it was at least partially their fault. you don’t have to address that, necessarily, but don’t rewrite the story to claim they were blameless)
Fingon with a wife
Fingon or Maedhros ships that don’t take Russingon into account (polyamory, an open relationship, Mae with someone after Finno dies or vice versa for an AU, them with other people while they’re separated on the Ice/in Angband - all of these scenarios are fine, but in the end I need them to be with each other first and foremost)
Dark!Maedhros
Elvish re-embodiment after death being an actual, literal rebirth that requires the characters to have a second childhood; I much prefer them being granted a new hröa in their prime (feel free to explore what “in their prime” means, though, especially wrt scarred and disabled elves)
~~~
Likes:
Gen fic
Found family
Family dynamics
Loving families, even when things get complicated
Friendship, intense/important platonic relationships
Relationships that defy categorization
Queerplatonic relationships
Polyamory
Queer headcanons (especially aromantic-spectrum headcanons)
Trans/nonbinary headcanons (genderbending is also fine, but I prefer trans/nb hcs)
Angst with a happy ending
Gray morality
Explorations of magic
Most tropes
Fanon and fandom tropes
Deconstruction/Inversion of fanon and fandom tropes
Interspecies relationships
Peredhil
Secret relationships
Secret relationships coming to light
Secret kids (especially secret peredhil!)
Giving ships OC kids
OCs interacting with canon characters (please no OCs without any canon characters around)
Confessions of love
First times
Hurt/comfort
Redemption, forgiveness, mercy
Ironic foreshadowing
Canon divergence AUs/X Lives AUs
Fairy tale AUs
Politics and scheming
Resolving conflicting canonical details
Historical/Narrative bias affecting what is and isn’t “canon” (to an extent; changing motivations, consequences, etc is great, but please don’t ignore canon entirely)
Elrond & Elros having complicated relationships with both their bio and adoptive parents
Names fitting the time period (Quenya names in Valinor, please; if this is difficult for you, that’s okay, no pressure, but I do strongly prefer it)
Names having a lot of thought put behind them (does the character go back to their original Quenya name upon rebirth? or do they keep their Sindarin name? or come up with something else entirely? do they hate their new Sindarin name and resent having to use it, or do they embrace it? As long as you put some thought into it, I’m sure I’ll like whatever you decide!)
Author’s notes where you explain your thought process, if you want; I love hearing how the story took shape!
~~~
Preferences re: Canon:
LaCE compliance is always completely optional. If you do want to include it, that’s great, but if you just want the characters to fuck without having that be an issue, go for it. I love explorations of LaCE that take into account the exceptions, boundaries, definitions, etc; I also love takes that emphasize that they are Laws and Customs, not biological imperatives.
I’m not picky about my Amrod deaths. He can die at either Losgar or Sirion (or, hell, some other time/place if you make it interesting enough!), whatever works best for the story. I do like Lightly Toasted Amrod, aka he almost burns to death at Losgar but survives/gets rescued at the last minute.
Gil-galad theories are all very fun. Please don’t make him the son of Fingon and a wife; if he’s Fingon’s son, I want Maedhros to be involved at least a little bit (adoption or trans mpreg are both fine in this scenario). Otherwise, I don’t have a particular preference, though if it’s not really relevant I usually default to the son of Orodreth (who is in turn the son of Angrod).
Honestly, when it comes to theories and headcanons, my rule of thumb is “convince me”! I’m down for whatever, for the most part, as long as you can justify it :)
~~~
Prompts:
“The Russingon Request”
For all of the characters and relationships in this request, I would really love to have Russingon involved in some way, though it doesn’t necessarily have to be the focus.
Fingon/Maedhros: I just love them a lot!! They’re probably my favorite pairing, and I adore both plot-heavy explorations of their characters and relationship and more slice-of-life fluff/angst/porn stuff without any particular story behind it. If I need comfort fic this pairing is my go-to, and I’d love to have more of that to come back to. This is a ship where PWP would be welcome; plot is also excellent and I’m sure to enjoy that too. I’m always a sucker for falling in love / confessions of love / first times, but ESPECIALLY for Russingon; the beginning of their love story is something I’ll never get tired of. Established relationship, reunions (after the Ice/Angband or after time spent apart in Hithlum/Himring or after leaving the Halls or another scenario) are also amazing. The secret relationship aspect of this ship is very fun, both keeping things secret and having their secret come to light. If you wanted to invert that trope, though, I would definitely enjoy that; I wrote a fake dating AU for them that was SO fun, and things like that or an arranged marriage AU or something are very very fun ideas! I like scenarios where they’re married, and I like scenarios where they’re not married, whichever floats your boat will be excellent. Honestly, I’m likely to enjoy almost any Russingon content you write; I just... *clenches fist* love them... If you wanted to explore a queerplatonic interpretation of them that would be really cool, but I do love love love romantic/sexual Russingon and would be overjoyed to have any content about them!
Fingon: I adore Fingon on his own - he’s brave and valiant and good-hearted and deserved better ;-; If you wanted to write a Fingon-focused story that touches on his time as a prince or a king or adjusting to re-embodied life in Valinor or his relationships with people other than Maedhros, I am sure to love that.
Maedhros: Maedhros is probably my favorite character in the Silm. I love his character arc, the fire symbolism, his trauma and recovery, his relationship with his brothers and his cousins, his time helping Maglor care for Elrond and Elros - really all of his story. For this exchange I’d rather not receive a fic focused on his time in Angband or his death; I can enjoy fics about that, but I’m looking for something a bit happier here. Art of Maedhros in those situations would be okay.
Fëanor & Maedhros, Fingon & Fingolfin: Stories about these two with their fathers would be lovely. I’d prefer something that shows them as both part of loving families, even when things get difficult; this could be Fingon struggling with wanting to tell his father about his boyfriend, or Maedhros trying to talk some sense into his dad after his latest outburst, but I need there to be genuine love and respect all around even if the situation remains unresolved. Put another way: angst is fine as long as there’s a happy/hopeful ending!
Fingolfin & Maedhros: There’s a lot of fic about Maedhros and Fingolfin during his recovery period and the decision to cede the crown, but I’d love to see them in some other context! Fingolfin helping his nephew adjust to Finwë’s court? Fëanor grudgingly approving of the kind way Fingolfin deals with a young Maedhros? Maedhros trying to intercede with Fingolfin on his father’s behalf? Or in Beleriand: a meeting at the Mereth Aderthad, or some other reunion? Fighting together on the battlefield? Fingolfin coming to Maedhros for advice, or vice versa? Fingolfin cornering Maedhros about his relationship with Fingon? Epistolary fic where they’re talking about politics? I think they had a lot of respect for each other, even if the relationship wasn’t always very friendly or easy, and I’d love to see that explored.
Fingon & Turgon: Turgon is my problematic fav! I see him as having a very complicated relationship with Fingon, especially if/when he finds out about Russingon. My headcanon is that Turgon loves and admires his older brother, but they’re very different people, and he absolutely disapproves of his boyfriend, especially after the Ice where he blames the FĂ«anorians for Elenwë’s death. Some angst between these two on those subjects (on the Ice, in Beleriand before/after the Rescue, shortly before Turgon leaves for Gondolin, their last reunion at the NĂrnaeth, a reunion in or after the Halls) would be amazing - though again, I’d like a happy/hopeful resolution.
Maedhros/Turgon: Speaking of Turgon... Okay, this is a weird one, I’m aware, but stay with me. In my mind, Turgon hates the FĂ«anorians and blames them for his wife’s death and all the awful things that have happened to him and his family, and since FĂ«anor himself is dead he shifts all that blame onto Maedhros (and there’s the added resentment that Maedhros is fucking Turgon’s brother). Of course he also blames himself but he doesn’t want to admit that. Maedhros on the other hand (which he only has one of) doesn’t like Turgon but he also blames himself for a lot of the bad things that have happened and basically this all comes to a head after Fingon’s death where they’re both grieving and angry with each other and themselves. This ship would probably require some sort of canon divergence that lets Turgon leave Gondolin for at least a bit, or it could take place immediately after Fingon’s death, before he’s returned to his hidden city. It’s really all about the hatefucking! Fealty - Mae already had a fealty kink from Fingon’s time as king, and now he’s swearing loyalty to Turgon as the new High King... Maybe this is the immediate aftermath of the NĂrnaeth and everything is super raw, or maybe it’s some sort of AU where Turgon gets off his ass and tries to unite the Noldor against Morgoth when Ulmo warns him about Gondolin’s fall and he has to confront his least favorite half-cousin. Comparisons between Fingon and Turgon’s physical appearances would be great, Maedhros almost letting himself forget that Fingon is dead for maximum angst, but then Fingon was short and Turgon is almost as tall as Mae is so the illusion is shattered and also Turgon just REALLY hates that Maedhros was genuinely in love with his brother because it would be easier to despise Mae if that was all manipulation. Mae not taking care of himself and purposefully pissing Turgon off and letting himself be manhandled. Turgon who hates how much this is all turning him on. Just a lot of resentment and angst!! For this specific ship, angst all the way through / no happy ending is fine; I can’t really imagine a happy resolution here, lmao.
Fingon/Finrod/Maedhros: This is combining my two exceptions to the “no PWP” rule; a non-smutty fic with them is also welcome but most of my ideas are decidedly smutty, lmao. Look, Maedhros and Fingon are ridiculously in love, and Finrod is a bit of a hoe, and I can’t believe there wasn’t at least one time they had a threesome. Finrod getting fucked by both of them at once would be excellent. Finrod is canonically friendly with the Fëanorians in Beleriand and goes hunting with Maglor and Maedhros, maybe this is a time where it’s Fingon instead of Maglor and they fuck in the woods, or Maedhros and Fingon visit Nargothrond, or Maedhros and Finrod visit Barad Eithel, or Fingon and Finrod visit Himring. Is this a planned encounter? Something spontaneous? Is Finrod seducing them both, or are they inviting him in? Did Maedhros and Finrod have a fling in Valinor, or did Finrod and Fingon find comfort together on the Ice, or both? I’d love to see where you take this!
Worldbuilding tags: These are of course completely optional, but if you wanted to explore these topics in your Russingon fic I would be very happy! Post-reembodiment fic where Mae and Finno get to be happy and soft are a balm to my troubled soul, especially if there’s some kind of leftover angst and desperation around worrying they’ll wake up alone; really lean into the hurt/comfort here! I mentioned the fealty kink thing earlier, but that’s an incredibly juicy aspect of their relationship in Beleriand that I’d love to see explored. If you decide to have them married, exploring marriage bonds/soul sex/telepathic communication would be really cool; in my DNW I mentioned that I don’t like the concept of soulmates (for Aro Reasons) so please steer clear of that, but having Mae and Finno choose each other over and over again and that affecting their soul bond/mental connection might just bring me to tears ;-; I’m also interested in explorations of the Halls of Mandos: for example, a reunion there helping Maedhros heal, or them being kept apart and finally getting to reunite after their rebirth, or how that healing process affects the forgiveness and redemption required for Fingon to come to terms with what Maedhros did after he died.Â
The bottom line for Russingon is that I Love Them and they love each other, and for this request I’d love PWP, fluff, hurt/comfort, falling in love, getting together, reunion, established relationship - really almost anything with them would absolutely make my day!
~~~
“The Turgoldo Request”
Turgon: Like I said before, Turgon is my problematic fav. I’m fascinated by his anger, bitterness, and hypocrisy; it breaks my heart how he loses everyone close to him but Idril; I don’t really approve of his isolationist politics but I’m interested in exploring what shaped him to get there. To me Turgon is “lawful neutral,” though in his mind he’s “lawful good” - he has a strict moral code that doesn’t always take into account all of his personal failings or other people’s differing life experiences. He is staunchly resentful of the Fëanorians, especially Maedhros and Fëanor himself; he blames them for the majority of his problems. He’s got anxiety, he’s traumatized by the Helcaraxë, he’s an overprotective father, he doesn’t have a lot of communication skills. I could go on - but here’s a link to a post where I talk about my headcanons for Turgon and his relationships. So: Turgon-focused fic that emphasizes his angst, loneliness, stiff-necked morality, etc would be great. Feel free to lean into the melancholy aspect; a fic about him doesn’t necessarily have to have a happy ending, though I’d prefer something not outright tragic.
Maeglin & Turgon: The miscommunication here is just...painful and so very very fun. I really do think Turgon loved his nephew, but he’s SO bad at expressing it, and Maeglin has trouble believing any affection he receives is genuine. But some happy moments between them would be great; maybe post-reembodiment reconciliation where Turgon assures Maeglin that he doesn’t hate him? Or an AU where Maeglin confesses to Turgon what happened to him when he was captured? Going along with my Turgoldo request, maybe some extremely awkward conversation about being in love with your cheerful blond cousin...? There’s lots of opportunity for angst and hurt/comfort, and I’d love to see some of that here, though again please make sure to have a happy/hopeful ending, at least of whatever snippet you end up writing.
Finrod/Turgon: This is my rarepair to end all rarepairs tbh. I honestly don’t know why these two are not shipped more! I am desperate for any and all content with them, I am not picky at all, I just love them.
Fun times in Aman before things get dark and serious would be lovely, I think in that context their relationship would be more casual (or at least they’re trying to make it casual and that leads to hurt feelings). I’d rather not focus on their relationships with their canon love interests, mostly because I’m not a fan of stories about jealousy (also because I see both Finrod and Amarië as gay and together mostly for convenience’s sake), but I do ship Elenwë/Amarië so those two having some sort of arrangement with Finrod and Turgon could be fun. But feel free to just ignore any of that and depict Finrod and Turgon together without their respective ladies!
If you go into Beleriand times, I like: Turgon grieving Elenwë and finding solace with Finrod; whatever went down that night by the river they never wanted to talk about again; helping each other build their hidden kingdoms; Finrod sneaking into Gondolin maybe??; repressed Turgon being angsty about discovering his bisexuality and Finrod either helping him or making things more complicated; Finrod missing Turgon and trying to distract himself in Nargothrond (maybe in combination with another Finrod ship? honestly I ship Finrod with any dude that moves, feel free to put your own spin on his relationships, though I would prefer a focus on Turgon/Finrod for this request).
Post-reembodiment scenarios would also be great. I think that whatever the situation between Amarië and Finrod was, she’s moved on from him by the time he’s reborn; maybe she’s with Elenwë now, which would make Turgon’s life a bit easier. Or maybe Turgon can make room for both Elenwë and Finrod.
Or maybe you want to do an AU with them! Supernatural creatures? Some other fantasy setting? A space opera? Honestly the only AU I wouldn’t be interested in is a modern AU, I’m very picky with my Silm Modern AUs. Honestly like I said earlier, I would love ANY content with Finrod and Turgon, you’d make me very happy if you depicted them together!! Feel free to ignore any of the stuff I said if you’ve got a better idea!!
Glorfindel/Ecthelion: Okay this one isn’t really that related to the other ships and characters in this request, but I do really love this ship and if you wanted to write something about them I would absolutely enjoy it. I don’t have a ton of ideas about them (maybe they’re husbands? a comedy of errors that ends with them getting together? mutual pining for an absurdly long time, maybe even that they’re aware of but don’t act on for years?) but they’re very sweet and I love them. If you wanted to include them in the background of a Gondolin-era fic, that would be great; or maybe some sort of compare/contrast fic with Finrod and Turgon, another blond/dark haired ship :P Or just write some fluff centered on them, that would be welcome too!!!
Worldbuilding tags: Military strategy and tactics around the Hidden Kingdoms seems like a good topic to build a fic around for Turgon and Finrod, especially considering their strategies are so different from those of Fingolfin and Maedhros, who did more to fight the Enemy but whose realms fell long before Nargothrond and Gondolin. Or you could explore what it’s like to live in isolated, insular Gondolin, and the mixed Sindar and Noldor cultures there, what prejudices might be found among high society, etc...go crazy with headcanons and worldbuilding!
~~~
“The Túrin Request”
I didn’t put down ships here that include Túrin/Beleg, but I do take that as basically canon, so some angst about Beleg’s death and Túrin’s love for him would probably come up in any of these situations. Or feel free to keep Beleg alive and throw him into the mix if you feel like it!
Finduilas/Gwindor/Túrin: I JUST THINK THEY COULD HAVE MADE IT WORK, YOU KNOW? There’s some juicy Túrin/Gwindor lines in COH, Túrin has a thing for blonds so I can see him developing feelings for Finduilas even if he didn’t necessarily have them in canon, Gwindor and Finduilas’ doomed romance just breaks me and I want to FIX it!! If they had been better at communicating, maybe…idk, this could be a fix it or not, but they’re all drama queens and they’re all in love with each other and what if Túrin had managed to save Gwindor and Finduilas and they all went to Brethil together, or something?? Who knows I just need them all together! The Finduilas is Gil-galad worldbuilding tag would be a great option here for a fix-it :)
Maeglin/Túrin: I feel like I’m the only person sailing this ship but I will go down with it. So WHAT that they never met in canon?? They have MATCHING SWORDS and they’re both doomed by family curses and I think it would be incredibly sexy of Túrin to go to Gondolin. Or maybe Maeglin and Aredhel escaped to Nargothrond (perhaps with Celegorm and Curufin?) and that’s where they meet? What if their curses cancel each other out and they help each other avoid their dooms! What if Maeglin tries to duel Túrin for the right to wield Anglachel! What if Túrin also has a thing for Idril (again…he’s got a thing for blonds, especially blond elves) and they bond over being jealous of Tuor and then fall in love! What if they refuse to acknowledge the insane amount of sexual tension between them until some incredibly inopportune moment like Idril and Tuor’s wedding! So many possibilities and I just adore the concept of this ship!!
~~~
Celebrimbor/Maeglin/TĂşrin: I like to call this ship “Doomed Disaster Boyfriends.” I think this works best in that Maeglin in Nargothrond AU; Celegorm and Curufin have been exiled but Celebrimbor and Maeglin and Aredhel stayed behind in Nargothrond when they left, or maybe Aredhel went with them but Maeglin didn’t, or maybe Aredhel fought in the NĂrnaeth and didn’t make it through the battle or something. Although if you wanted to take the Gondolin route instead, where TyelpĂ« makes his way to Gondolin after the NĂrnaeth and TĂşrin joins up with Tuor instead of heading to Brethil, that would be neat too. Or if you want to go a super dark route: TyelpĂ« was taken captive to Angband after the NĂrnaeth, and Beleg didn’t manage to rescue TĂşrin so he’s in Angband too, and Maeglin gets kidnapped himself, so they all try and break out together…
Anyway: whatever the situation, they’re all horribly doomed, they all have family curses, Tyelpë and Maeglin is a great ship because they’re both smiths and everyone hates their dads, Maeglin and Túrin is a great ship because they have matching swords and they’re both super dramatically emo, Túrin and Celebrimbor is a great ship because honestly of course it was Tyelpë who reforged Anglachel into Gurthang and they were both kind of outsiders in Nargothrond - anyway just. Throw them all together into one screaming angsty mess that probably ends up even worse than in canon, I would LOVE that. And Tyelpë outlives both his boyfriends and eventually falls for Annatar who unbeknownst to him had a hand in both their awful demises... Though again I’d prefer a happy ending for a fic here.
“The Kidnap Dads Request”
Elrond & Gil-galad: I have two scenarios in mind for this - either Gil-galad is taking Elrond (& Elros?) under his wing during the War of Wrath and having to reassess his feelings about Maedhros and Maglor, OR Gil-galad is the son of Fingon and Maedhros and therefore considers E(&E) his brothers because they’re also the son(s) of Maedhros.
Maedhros & Maglor & Elrond & Elros: Kidnap Dads!!! I love Kidnap Dads!!! Please make sure to include Maedhros in this - his dynamic with the twins can be different than Maglor’s, but I want him to be involved in their care and upbringing too. Anything from fluff to hurt/comfort would be amazing; you can write E&E learning to trust M&M, or after they’ve come to love each other, or some time in the future where Elrond and/or Elros looks back fondly on their foster parents. Please, please no bashing Elwing and Eärendil. However - their bio parents interacting with their foster parents in awkward/humorous situations would be great. I think the twins have a very complicated relationship with all their parents, and diving into that would be really interesting - or you can just lean into the fluffy found family, which I would also love.
Some possible scenarios: an official adoption ceremony, cultural differences, M&M giving E&E some more names / teaching them Quenya, Maglor showing up to Elrond and/or Elros’ wedding(s), Maglor in Rivendell, sharing traditions, Maedhros teaching the twins some skill (cooking? swordfighting? embroidery?), the twins being Weird (either because they’re part human or part Maia) and M&M learning to deal with that, Elrond reuniting with Maedhros in Valinor, Elrond getting adopted by M&M’s spouses (Maglor’s wife and/or Fingon), AU where Maedhros lives and is around for E&E’s later lives, Maglor teaching Elrond magical/musical healing
Worldbuilding tags: How did being raised with M&M affect E&E’s decisions when it came to their Choices of kindred? Were there any Men in the remnants of the Fëanorian host, and did that affect their Choices? Where did Elrond’s skill as a healer come from; is it connected at all to the Music, and if so, did Maglor teach him that? How do E&E reflect on their time among Kinslayers, and what is it that helps them come to love their captors/foster parents? Do M&M redeem themselves through raising E&E? As the First Age rolls over into the Second and M&M leave the picture while E&E come to the forefront, what lessons do they take from their foster parents? How do people, especially the other leaders of Elves and Men, react to the obvious Fëanorian influence on E&E? What happens to the remnant of the Fëanorian host after M&M are gone? How do E&E feel about their cousin Celebrimbor and vice versa? These are all just things to think about - feel free to ignore or cherry-pick as you see fit!
~~~
“The CĂrwen Request”
CĂrdan/Lalwen: This is a completely unsupported rare pair that I nonetheless really love. In my mind, Lalwen is a political diplomat to the Falas in the early First Age, representing her brother to the Sindar. What happens next is up to you! CĂrdan and Lalwen as forbidden lovers? CĂrdan and Lalwen as an arranged marriage? CĂrdan and Lalwen as the parents of Gil-galad? CĂrdan and Lalwen in a queerplatonic relationship rather than a romantic one? Any of these would be great to read about! Bonus points if Lalwen gets a sword!
Lalwen & Fingolfin: Why did Lalwen follow Fingolfin to Beleriand when Findis did not, and ArafinwĂ« turned back? If we’re going with my Lalwen the diplomat headcanon, why did Fingolfin choose her as his representative? How does he feel about her relationship with CĂrdan? Or you can focus on some other aspect of their relationship, maybe mirroring the Turgon & Aredhel relationship or the Fingon & Aredhel relationship.
Gelmir: This tag doesn’t specify which Gelmir we’re talking about, but I’d like to request something with Gelmir who was CĂrdan’s messenger, who went with Arminas to Nargothrond and warned Orodreth about taking down the bridge. He could be a supporting character and a friend of CĂrdan, or you could have him missing his original lands (Dorthonion) and lord (Angrod). My headcanon is that he and Arminas are in a queerplatonic relationship; if you’re going with qp!CĂrwen, maybe they could serve as a model for CĂrdan and Lalwen as they’re figuring out their relationship.
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“The Halenthir Request”
Haleth/Caranthir: This ship dynamic is fascinating to me. Why did Haleth refuse Caranthir’s offer of aid? Was it the result of a falling out between them, or did he have to pursue her all the way to Brethil to explain his feelings? I absolutely love stories that give Haleth and Caranthir a peredhel child or two, especially when that’s a surprise to Caranthir. Maybe Haleth doesn’t even tell Caranthir they have a kid right away, or at all... If we’re exploring LaCE, does Caranthir consider himself married to Haleth because they’ve had sex, even though that’s not part of Mannish culture? How do the Haladin take their Chieftain’s relationship with this weird elf guy? Do Caranthir’s brothers know about his mortal girlfriend? This is another ship where a queerplatonic take would be excellent; I see both Haleth and Caranthir as being on the aromantic-spectrum, and exploring that weird gray space of their relationship would be wonderful. I also love interspecies relationships in general, so digging into the cultural differences and issues that come along with an elf and a mortal being together would be great (also. height differences!!) Additionally: Caranthir is kind of depicted as the grumpy rich bitch of Beleriand, so exploring trade as an excuse for him to visit Haleth and/or historical and narrative biases that depict him and Haleth at odds with each other when they “actually weren’t” are two interesting ways to take this.
Aegnor/Andreth: So, this request is called “The Halenthir Request,” but I also love Aegnor and Andreth. If you could give them some sort of happy ending, or at least a happy middle, I would love that. What really got me to put them here alongside Halenthir is the concept of Aegnor and Andreth having a child that interacts with a child of Haleth and Caranthir! Go crazy with OCs; they can be romantically involved or good friends or bitter rivals or whatever scenario you can dream up :)
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“The Finwëan Drama Request”
So for this request I’m really down for any and all Finwëan relationships! But here are a couple from the tagset that caught my eye :)
Aredhel & Galadriel & Amras & Amrod: The babies of the family! (not counting Arakáno, or you could replace Aredhel with him, or have him be a much later bonus baby, or just have him not exist in this verse) I can imagine all sorts of shenanigans they got up to as kids :)
Amrod & Amras: Would love an exploration of a “twin bond” between these two, similarish to the marriage bond concept.
Celebrimbor & Orodreth: They were both fourth-gen Finwëans, if we go with the Orodreth son of Angrod version; did they grow up as friends? Did they not really know each other until Beleriand? Orodreth was reluctant to follow his family to Beleriand, and Celebrimbor could easily have been dragged along without having much say; maybe they bond over wishing they were still in Valinor? Why did Celebrimbor decide to stay in Nargothrond when his father and uncle left, and why did Orodreth welcome him there?
Celebrimbor/Maeglin: As my friend May said, “maeglin/celebrimbor is really just the inherent eroticism of the man who gave up information under torture loving the man who did not.” I don’t personally subscribe to the Celebrimbor in Gondolin version of events, so I imagine any relationship between them would be post-reembodiment.
Curufin & Celebrimbor: I’m especially interested in post-reembodiment scenarios between them, too. Do they try and reconnect? Does Celebrimbor forgive his father? I can only imagine how difficult it must have been for Curufin to watch Tyelpë’s demise in Vairë’s tapestries in the Halls; how does that affect their father-son relationship?
Curufin & Maeglin: Curufin (& Celegorm) were friends with Maeglin’s mother; does he feel protective of Maeglin? If Celebrimbor is now involved with Maeglin, is this Curufin trying to get to know his son’s boyfriend?
Celegorm/Aredhel: I see Aredhel as aromantic, and I sometimes see Celegorm that way too; a queerplatonic interpretation or a friends with benefits situation would both be something I’d enjoy reading, at any point in their timelines.
Curufin & Aredhel: I imagine that in a Celegorm/Aredhel situation Curufin would be third wheeling them a lot; or maybe not! Maybe they spend time together on their own, or they gang up to prank Tyelko, or something.
Curufin & Finrod & Celegorm: Were they friends before C&C came to Nargothrond? How did that friendship turn toxic and manipulative? Can they become friends again after they’re reembodied? I’d also be down for a threesome situation with them, though this is a gen relationship tag and I’d love that too.
Eärwen & Anairë, Eärwen/Anairë: These two were canonically dear friends, and I love exploring how that came to be - did they know each other before they met their husbands? Do they meet and fall in love after they’re already married and have mixed feelings about that? What is their life together like after the Darkening and the Kinslaying? This is a ship I really love queerplatonic interpretations of, though purely platonic and romantic/sexual takes on them are both excellent, too.
Fëanor & Findis & Fingolfin & Lalwen & Finarfin: Fëanor and his half-siblings...so much potential for drama! Was there a time where Fëanor didn’t resent them so much? If so, how did that anger grow? Was his feud specifically with Fingolfin, or with all the children of Indis? What were family reunions like, especially once they start having kids who befriend one another? After the Flight of the Noldor, how do Findis and Finarfin deal with the loss of their siblings - especially when those siblings start to die in far-off Beleriand?
Fëanor & Fingolfin: I would LOVE a fic that shows some extremely grudging affectionate moments between these two :) Fëanor being like “no, I’M the only one who gets to pick on my half-brother!” or Fingolfin idolizing his older brother or a Fëanor Lives AU where they they get to have the fistfight they sorely needed to have and then settle into a more subdued rivalry or a reunion/apology in the Halls - or literally anything that shows some amount of hope for their brotherly relationship.
Nerdanel & Eärwen & Anairë & Findis & Lalwen: Give it up for the Finwëan Ladies! Four out of the five of them remained in Aman; how do they grieve Lalwen’s departure? Are they all friends, or are there some rivalries in their midst? My headcanon is that Findis is Glorfindel’s mother, but Lalwen didn’t have kids (until Beleriand?) - does Lalwen feel left out among all these mothers? How do these women pick up the pieces of the mess left by their husbands and brothers in the wake of the Flight of the Noldor? I would love depictions of them as politicians trying to mend bridges with the Teleri and the Valar.
FĂ«anor/Nerdanel: You cannot tell me that this extremely fiery, passionate man who had SEVEN CHILDREN with his wife did not absolutely adore her! Give me some early-relationship or early-marriage spiciness, or them as new parents (for the first time...or not), or them making things for each other - really, anything that shows how much they love each other, before (or even after) it all went wrong.
Sons of Fëanor: Look I just love the Fëanorians. I’m especially a sucker for Big Brother Maedhros, so having him interact with his younger siblings would be amazing, but really any sibling dynamics between Fëanor’s kids is something I’m bound to enjoy, as long as you show their love for one another even when they’re fighting amongst themselves.
ElemmĂrĂ«/Findis: Vanyarin lesbians!! I see ElemmĂrĂ« as a woman (specifically a trans woman, though if you don’t want to get into the details of her gender that’s fine), and a major reason in why Findis stuck around in Aman instead of leaving with her siblings. I like the theory that Glorfindel is Findis’ son, which would make ElemmĂrĂ« his other mother. But if you’d rather depict them as not together at the time of the Darkening, that would be fine too; maybe ElemmĂrĂ« is upset at the thought of Findis leaving but Findis stays because she’s realized she’s in love with ElemmĂrĂ«, or something like that. ElemmĂrĂ« wrote a song about the Darkening, so I think focusing on that time of fear and uncertainty and having them find comfort in one another would be very interesting.
I’ve kind of sprinkled references to the worldbuilding tags throughout these prompts, but I’d also love to see the “queer elves and their communities” tag explored with the Finwëans. I have lots of queer headcanons (feel free to ask me about specific hcs; I have anon messages on!) but I’d also love to see your takes on these characters’ identities! Do homophobia and amatonormativity exist in your version of Aman and Beleriand? How does that affect the queer community; is it underground and secretive or just another sort of community someone can interact with? If there’s not a focus on queerness being “wrong,” what does that mean for queer folks who want to find other people like them? Do things change in Beleriand - are the Sindar more or less accepting; do the Noldorin realms establish themselves differently than Tirion or Valmar did? I’m very curious to see your take on this!
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“The Gigolas Request”
Gimli/Legolas: All Gigolas is good Gigolas, and you can quote me on that - but I do have a soft spot for queerplatonic Gigolas, and I might die of happiness if you wrote me some :) I love elf/dwarf relationships, and cultural differences leading to miscommunication is one of my favorite tropes for this ship.
Legolas/Gimli & ...: I put a bunch of these for this request. For “& Thranduil” and “& Glóin” I’d love to see some “telling the family” scenarios, with Thranduil and Glóin coming to terms with their sons’ relationship. For “& Aragorn” and “& Boromir” I was imagining a Three (or Four!) Hunters situation with Aragorn third wheeling them, and/or a Boromir Lives AU where he and Aragorn commiserate how stupid their friends are about their feelings.
Fourth Age Ithilien Elves: Legolas’ new home in Ithilien is really interesting to me (as is Gimli’s new home in Aglarond, but that group did not get nominated) and I’d love to see an outside POV of Gigolas, what their friends and subordinates think of this odd couple. Or you could dive into what the founding of Ithilien was like, and Legolas’ relationship with Faramir and Éowyn.
Worldbuilding tags: I also love Fourth Age Valinor fics! What was it like for Legolas to give into sea-longing and sail West, and how did he and Gimli come to the decision to bring Gimli along too? What is everyone’s reaction to the dwarf in Valinor? (LOOK I just think people like Finrod, Celebrimbor, Curufin, Maeglin, Aulë, etc would LOVE Gimli!) Or we can backtrack to the late Third Age and look at the trade relationship between Erebor and Rivendell, and between Rivendell and Mirkwood, and how that affects Gimli’s initial perception of Legolas / Legolas’ expectations upon joining the Fellowship.
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“The Durins Request”
For my Hobbit requests, assume I want an Everyone Survives BOTFA AU unless I specify otherwise.
FĂli: I just REALLY love my boy!! (as you can probably see from my url, lol) Any fic that’s FĂli-centric would make me happy, focusing on his familial relationships, political expectations, learning to fight, friends from Ered Luin, reuniting with them after reclaiming Erebor...all that would be great. Please do not write me any FĂli pairings; as you can also see from my url, I headcanon FĂli as aromantic, and this is not a headcanon I am flexible with. Write me a story about FĂli that shows how rich and fulfilling and challenging his life is without any romantic aspect!Â
DĂs & Frerin & Thorin: I’d love to see something about these siblings; maybe DĂs reminiscing on her childhood and comparing FĂli and KĂli to Frerin and Thorin?
DĂs/Spouse: I do love that this is not “DĂs/Husband” - so take that as permission to give DĂs a wife and/or a trans/nonbinary spouse! I headcanon that DĂs’ spouse is not a Longbeard dwarf, which leads me to...
Dwarves of Ered Luin: How do the Broadbeams and Firebeards of the Blue Mountains feel about the arrival of the Longbeard exiles? What do they think about the Longbeard princess marrying one of their people?
FĂli & KĂli & Gimli: What if Gimli came on the Quest, or FĂli and KĂli stayed behind? Or, how did Gimli feel about being left out? Was he excited to reunite with his cousins, or still jealous and a bit resentful? Or if we go the canon route, did he feel horrible that he parted with them on not the best terms and never got to see them again? I’d also love some compare/contrast Kiliel and Gigolas parallels :)
Ravens of Erebor: I just think the ravens are REALLY COOL. When did they settle there, and how did their relationship with the Line of Durin come to be? What are raven politics like??
Worldbuilding tags: These seem pretty self-explanatory for the most part, but I’d love to see some post-BOTFA politics both internally within the Longbeard dwarves as they return to Erebor and externally with Mirkwood and Dale. The Smaug’s corpse tag could be some source of contention there; maybe some men want to re-establish Laketown amidst his remains, or they want to relocate him so they can resettle Esgaroth, or the the dwarves want to harvest his corpse for resources (he’s probably got gold and jewels stuck in his scales, and dragon-skin/scales is probably a good raw material for crafting things).
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“The Tauriel Request”
KĂli/Tauriel: As you can probably see from my AO3 profile pic and username (derived from the “she walks in starlight” quote in DOS), I LOVE Tauriel! I don’t so much anymore, but I used to write a lot of Kiliel fic, and I am still very soft for them <3 I’d love almost any sort of AU for them (even a modern AU would be fine!) or a canon-verse everyone lives AU where they get to be happy and domestic :)
Tauriel & Legolas: I love platonic or sibling-esque relationships for these two! I would especially enjoy them growing up together, or Legolas taking Tauriel under his wing when she joins the Guard, or Legolas teasing Tauriel for her crush on a dwarf only for the tables to be turned when he falls for Gimli :D
Tauriel & Thranduil: This is a really complicated relationship - I don’t think Thranduil sees her as a daughter, necessarily, but he definitely feels protective of her and is frustrated when she doesn’t listen to him. I’d love to see the origins of that dynamic, and Tauriel’s side of things as she goes from being fond of her friend’s dad to distancing herself from her king whose politics she disagrees with, or Tauriel returning to Mirkwood after the battle (in an everyone lives AU where she’s just visiting, or in canon where she wanders for a bit but eventually comes home) and them reconciling.
Sigrid/Tauriel: Let’s give it up for our non-canon gals! Okay, I love Tauriel and this ship is so cute. If you’d like to include KĂli/Tauriel in the background (KĂli supporting Tauriel's relationship with Sigrid, for example) that would be great, but a story based in canon where KĂli dies would also be fine; however I'd like it if you acknowledged Tauriel’s feelings for KĂli in some way. Sigrid being all blushy and embarrassed around the hot elf girl who’s hanging around Dale helping to rebuild is kind of what I have in mind, but feel free to take this in any direction you'd like!
Tauriel/Mirkwood Guard OFC: A fling from Tauriel’s youth? A girlfriend she feels torn about leaving for KĂli? A friend she’s always crushed on but never said anything about? Any of these situations would be fun! Like with Sigriel, I’d like it if you acknowledged her feelings for KĂli (if the story takes place in that time period) but otherwise go crazy with this prompt!
Worldbuilding tags: Again, I think these are mostly self-explanatory and they could all definitely relate to Tauriel. How does she become Captain of the Guard - is it because she comes up with some new innovative strategy to fight the spiders? Is Mirkwood very patriarchal, and is that appointment something she faced opposition or competition for? Her healing of KĂli in DOS isn’t ever really explained, so maybe exploring the magic and/or medicine involved there and how she came to learn that. (In my own headcanons, her foster family are healers, which is how she learned those skills even though she’s primarily a warrior - but feel free to take it in whatever direction you’d like!)
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Alright, that’s the end of my prompts/requests! Thanks for reading this far, and whatever you end up writing for me I am super excited to read it!! And if you have questions or ideas or something, my askbox is open and I have anon messages on, I’d love to talk! Thank you again for creating for me, you are the best! <3
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Thank you!! I was like... didn't they want the nauglamir? wasn't that what they asked for?
The full paragraph totally got my brain moving on some meta, so I can't thank you enough for posting the whole thing - though I'm sorry to sandwich you in the middle of the two halves of my train of thought.
I find it really interesting that we get to see thingol descend into greed in this letter, in a way that I dont think the published silm does at all. Because the passage above is a version that is more sympathetic of thingol than the dwarves. Like, how can you demand as payment the very object you were commissioned to make? obviously, their minds are curse-addled, but it makes far more sense for thingol to deny them payment.
I still don't think one letter supersedes other more detailed drafts, but I think this has potential as part of a more reparative reading of the dwarves.
There's a running issue with tolkien's dwarves being greedy, and how this runs into antisemitic stereotypes.
The published silm leans heavily on thingol being able to divine the true (malicious) minds of the dwarves, neatly doing away with any need for thingol to own up to the fact that what he has claimed is not his. Manufacturing grievances for ignoble purposes is also antisemitic.
This letter seems more balanced in characterization. Thingol does not dismiss the grievances of the dwarves via his own omniscience, and the conversation over the taking of the treasure from nargothrond is held amongst just the dwarves. I think lintamande has talked at some length about the hierarchy of racial importance tolkien established within middle earth, and while certain powers inherent to elves, like osanwe, don't inherently prop that narrative up, in cases like this I think it does reinforce that narrative in a word of god sort of way. I see this as parallel to how idril alone can divine that maeglin has bad intentions, as the calaquendi/moriquendi hierarchy is politicized and policed like the elf/dwarf hierarchy is.
I would say neither party in this letter is super sympathetic, but the letter is far clearer about the psychological impact of glaurung's curse. I think an altered state of consciousness is far easier for me to swallow for a couple reasons. The dwarves do only take as much as was owed them for their labor. They don't all agree to take the silmaril too (at least one disagrees). Tolkien does say the dwarves do desire the silmaril, and eventually decide to take it along with the silver setting; I think this is somewhat more understandable as the letter explicitly says all parties are curse-influenced, and this sets a far different tone for interpreting the theft of the silmaril. "Stolen through temporary insanity" is quite different from "stolen because they're inherently greedy and duplicitous."
I don't mean this to say I think thingol is evil or anything, in any draft of the silm. I'm purely approaching this from the standpoint of identifying themes tolkien imparted to the narrative, and deciding how to proceed with my own transformative works and fan community participation when I find themes that are bigoted. I still haven't decided how I feel about cherry picking things from certain drafts to incorporate into my overarching canon grab bag, especially when there are other things in that same draft I wouldn't use. And I'm not Jewish so other folks are definitely better suited to talk about this at greater length.
initial thoughts on "the hoard" are that it lends explicit credence to my perspective that both thingol and the dwarves were in an altered state of mind from glaurung's cursed hoard. That seemed to be at best subtext in the published silm. iirc this version also leans a little heavier on thingol refusing them full payment than what i remember being published? correct me on all counts if i'm wrong.
The girdle bit i find quite strange.... jirt moving pieces around and about and making nothing better for it... What does he mean by "Melian had removed it in grief and horror at the deed that had been done" before the sacking even happened? Because to me it sounds like she alone is not swayed by the curse on the treasure and drops the girdle in some sort of weird fight with thingol over him not paying the dwarves??? help.
Because the other option tolkien entertains is that the curse on the treasure undoes the girdle's power. I think that has big implications for people keeping the nauglamir-silmaril around for the rest of the first age. I know people cite birthright-by-inheritance as reason for doriath and sirion to keep the silmaril (and I'm not denying that finders keepers is valid).
But, I feel like i've seen at least one person cite a draft that says the silmaril-necklace was kept because it might confer some benefit because of its hallowing. (speculation) if you were to run with the idea of the silver being so thoroughly cursed it undid the Girdle I think that most likely would undo/cancel any benefit from silmaril. So there's one draft contradiction I spot (if someone knows which draft that notion came from, i'd be in your debt). Additionally, because this letter overtly implicates glaurung's curse on the treasure, because the stone was never moved from the silver setting, I don't think you'd be too far logically from saying the curse is at work upon the mind of anyone who has the necklace, and could argue that this is one factor in the decisions to keep the silmaril.
I am not saying anything about it being good or bad that the silmaril was not ceded, and I'm not trying to say jirt lays canonical blame on X person, just that i'm interested in what all parties are thinking and why.
has anyone drawn up a post of what this letter explicitly contradicts from the published silm or satellite texts/drafts? Obviously the girdle and sacking of doriath are quite different. At a glance, the stuff about the theft of the boats and the messenger to feanor is just a very cursory summary of what we see in the published silm. "Lord of lights" is new, as is the bit about the Rings being a continuation of the Silmarils and that war. But otherwise?
My brain is scrambled egg so i'd love to see what others think about this.
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Silm reread 14: Men! (again)
Finrod goes hunting with M&M (C3 and AA are apparently too nasty for him to hang out?), gets bored (Finrod doesn't seem to have a great attantions span), travels far because why not, he likes new places, discovers Men.
The Men are like: Yay, we found the place we've been looking for, it's perfect, all our problems are over! Finrod decides that Men are his new hyperfixation lovely. He isn't the first Elf to meet them, they'd met the Avari and learned from them already!
Osanwe and stuff.
Finrod gets named NĂłm, which totally isn't "gnome but make it nonless obvious". Finrod the gnome. I love him. And making fun of him [affectionate].
Also, the Men (Beorians) are totally fanboying over Finrod too, they claim him as their ruler and swear fealty to the Arafinweans. It seems like it is spontaneous, he doesn't ask for it or anything. No colonizer vibes. They just love each other a lot. It's all very cool and kind.
A canon cnfirmation that the Eldar (so: not Sindar) are the best at learning languages of all the peoples.
Of course, Finrod asks questions. Where do Men come from? They don't want to talk about it. Finrod will keep poking, of course. Very relateable.
Here we get the thing I already posted about: Morgoth also hyperfixated on Men, so he went to corrupt them and left Sauron as the manager. And Sauron immediately lost Maedhros, and didn't even know how. :D (It's not canon, it's my interpretation of the timeline).
Anyway, Morgoth returns and leaves "only a few of his servants and not very powerful or skilled ones" among Men. So no, tha guy we'll later see impersonating one of the Mannish chieftains very likely isn't Sauron, just some less savvy shapeshifter guy. Which shows that there are more uMaiar whose MO is shapeshifting+spreading lies. which, I think, is even mentioned somewhere.
The Green Elves of Ossiriand seem to be hardcore vegans: they can't be friends with Men, because the Men cut trees and hunt animals.
The Men relocate to A&A's lands and Beor asks Finrod to take him to Nargothrond. And here he gets the name Bëor, which means a vassal… yes, it sounds not great, but based on the vibe I would assume he was the one to pick the name and Finrod reluctantly agreed.
Other Men settle at Caranthir's land and are ignored. Finrod generally visits Men often, and many Elves of both tribes come to see them too, because Men are a cool novelty. Generally, cultural exchange.
"It is said that" (Pengolodh, you gossip!) only Finrod consulted the "giving lands to Men" thing with Thingol. (TBH, Thingol banned pretty much every other Noldo from Doriath so… well ok, they could have sent letters I guess.)
Also, Thingol does have mysterious nightmares about Men!!! Self-fulfilling prophecies ftw. Ha had those even before Men were a thing. So, this is important.
Some Men fear Eldar and the light in their eyes. Huh. Yea, they're sus and Morgoth-infused I suppose. And we have the "not Sauron because he would be more competent" shapeshifter scene.
Sidenote: It would make a good comedy fic (either a very dark comedy or not very canon but anyway): this guy returns to Sauron, tells him the [lack of] results, and Sauron (still upset after losing Mae) berates him and lectures him on how to do it properly. (If less comedic, probably some quotes or at least close paraphrases from a CSL's book I have not read would fit well in here). Hmm. It could even work without comedy.
Haleth, siege, all that stuff, Caranthir learns to respect Men, and Haleth doesn't want to be his subordinate anyway. Also, she's so brave (and/or insane) that she leads her people through the Spider-land. Also, she disses Thingol a bit (he deserved that one).
Men learn sindarin en masse. Also, many young guys serve in Elven army. Cultural exchange again.
Oh, Boromir is a FA name too! XD I forgot that. Plus a lot of other people having weird names plus we get the genealogies for Turin, Tuor and Beren. Men are cool and awesome and stuff + at the end of this chapter the three Edain tribes are described. TBH I see a pretty clear analogy of:
Hadorians - Vanyar (blond, blue-eyed, tall, author's fav), but the Men are more anger-prone. (Also, Hadorians are quite Tulkas-like to me.)
Beorians - Noldor (dark hair, grey-eyed, craftsy), but the Men have more pity
Halethians (sp?) - Teleri (not social, forest-y)
Beor dies, Elves are sad and confused that it is a thing. End of chapter.
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